Once upon a time, in the late 20th century, existence was almost snuffed out without a trace. This
is the premise of Kevin Smith's comic fantasia DOGMA, which unfolds the fiercely funny adventures
of a group of mortal humans and surreal supernatural beings as they make a pilgrimage to New Jersey to
stop the accidental apocalypse any which way they can.
Smith has previously written and directed three movies that took on such earthly subjects as the lives of
retail employees ("Clerks"), the Mall Generation ("Mallrats") and unrequited love ("Chasing Amy").
With DOGMA, he takes his storytelling style to a new domain: a fantastical milieu, a sort of
cosmological yet comical Oz, in which human beings meet up with a coterie of colorful characters from
the celestial world - and get a first-hand glimpse of their lives, duties and temper tantrums. Here,
Smith's trademark verbal roller-coaster collides with otherworldly adventure and special effects.
Smith wrote DOGMA around the same time of his first feature film, "Clerks," when a personal moment
of doubt led to a monumental comedy about heaven and earth and the funny things that happen in the space
between the two. Smith fashioned a phantasmagorical world populated by ether-dwelling angels and steaming,
stenching demons who spring literally from the bowels of the earth -- a cartoon-like world where he could
chat playfully about some of the issues on his mind. "It started with me asking some questions about my own
faith but the flick doesn't attempt to hold out answers to any of those questions," says Smith. "It's meant
to make you laugh."
He continues: "Predominantly, what I've always done is relationship movies and this is a farce and a fantasy
about the relationship with God. But no one can mistake it for any sort of tome or a text. The absurdity of
the characters sticks a pin into any potential didacticism. All along, I've thought how seriously can you take
a movie that has a rubber poop monster in it?"
Smith waited to make DOGMA because he didn't feel quite ready to take on the more ambitious filmmaking
requirements of a pure fantasy replete with winged flights of fancy. "Personally, I don't think I was mature
enough to take it on until now, " says Smith. "Not that the subject matter is so mature - because it's really
a flick that's as goofy as it is thoughtful - but I think taking it on earlier would have led to a far more
adolescent film. I'm pretty much the least visual director around so making such a visual film was a stretch
and I wanted this world to really pop."
When Smith's producing partner Scott Mosier read DOGMA, the wild world Smith had forged came immediately
to life in his head. "This was a script that really did something different and new," says Mosier. "It was peppered
with so much fun and so many different questions. But it also had all those elements that make Kevin's movies so
appealing."
At first Mosier attempted to define the movie, but eventually he gave up. "This movie is completely uncategorizable,"
he admits. "It has it's own tempo, it's own groove that's very different from anything else. Every time you think
it's one thing - a fantasy, a comic journey, an inquiry into faith -- it switches to another mood. The only thing
you can do is let go and allow it to happen to you. If you try to say it's one thing or another, you're fighting
the nature of the film."
Mosier was particularly drawn to Smith's depiction of heavenly creatures as complex, emotional beings who behave
like far more powerful, and therefore sometimes more absurd, reflections of humankind. "In the fantasy of DOGMA,
angels and demons have very human motivations: they act out of rage and fear and romance," points out Mosier.
"It's a very original and funny vision of the heavens."
For both Smith and Mosier, the key to making DOGMA work was finding a group of actors who got the joke
and the spirit of the vision. "The commitment of the actors made me want to make a phenomenal flick because they
were all taking a leap of faith in telling a story about a leap of faith," summarizes Smith.
THE RENEGADES: LOKI AND BARTLEBY
DOGMA is in part Kevin Smith's imaginative fantasia on the personal affairs and age-old conflicts of
Celestial Beings in the late 20th Century. At the core of the story are two fallen angels: Loki and Bartleby.
Angels of course are the winged, cloud-dwelling spiritual beings deemed superior to man in power and
intelligence. But these two overstepped their bounds - and were banished from heaven for an eternity.
Exiled to the Midwest, all they want is to go home . . . even if it means obliterating their inferior human
brethren.
To play the demoted duo, Kevin Smith chose two actors whose comic rapport is well established:
Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, co-stars and co-writers of the Oscar-winning "Good Will Hunting."
Affleck has had a long-standing relationship with Smith, having starred in "Chasing Amy" and "Mallrats."
He's always had an affinity for Smith's trademark brand of brash and provocative humor. But this script was different.
"This is Kevin's first foray into making a real, whole movie with all of its components; it is his effects-laden,
verbal trampoline blockbuster in a way," notes Affleck. "He has created a modern fantasy story, using familiar
spiritual beings to forge this whole set of colorful characters on a mission. It's hip and cool and I think it
has two great things going for it: on the one hand it's a chance to see an innovative, unusual filmmaker doing
something groundbreaking. And on the other it's just plain funny, entertaining and vibrant."
Continues Damon, who also had a cameo in "Chasing Amy": "DOGMA is a totally different animal
from Kevin's other movies, a totally different look and feel. The only thing that remains the same is Kevin's
sense of humor and his sensibility. When it comes to Kevin, I like to use the word irreverent but he comes at
this subject with a lot of reverence. He takes on some serious themes here in a fun and light way. It's a
comic book story but to me it has a spiritual underpinning."
Affleck describes Bartleby and Loki as "two guys who just want to go home." "They have been in Wisconsin for
thousands of years and they're ready to go back to heaven," explains Affleck. "And they're not about to let
anything stop them."
"New Jersey becomes the gateway to Loki and Bartleby's dreams," adds Damon. "But we aren't the brightest
angels in the world, and in the process, we set in motion this whole series of events that could create the
end of all existence - not good."
For both actors, a lot of the fun of the movie was getting to play the sort of Laurel and Hardy comic partnership
of the celestial domain. Summarizes Damon: "It was easy to fall into playing old buddies who have been kicking
around on earth together for eons, because that's already how we feel about each other. We've been through a
lot together; we've had some exciting times and some pretty boring ones, so we can imagine spending eternity in
Wisconsin together."
Kevin Smith sees Ben Affleck as "the linchpin of the film." He explains: "No matter how much Ben's star
rose during the making of this movie, he never lost his desire to make the film or his belief in it.
Without Ben, I don't think I could have done this movie. He was there one hundred percent. He worked like
a dog to bring something to this role he's never really brought to the screen before. I think his is the
toughest job in the movie: he's a character who goes from one end of the spectrum to the other, and goes
completely over the edge at one point."
As for Damon, Smith comments: "Who else could have such great chemistry with Affleck? Matt took a leap and
it really pays off. He took the opportunity to show off his comic side."
Summarizes Scott Mosier: "Matt and Ben brought a real sense of fun to these characters. You get to see the
more playful and mischievous side of Matt that's never really been seen before while Ben brings that sincerity
and sort of tragic quality to Bartleby. Through his performance, you really see that he's this character who
is so confused and so filled with rage at being rejected by God that he loses all perspective."
HUMBLE HUMANS
When Loki and Bartleby decide to take out their rage against the rules of heaven by breaking them,
they almost take out humanity in the process. Being angels and snobs when it comes to the frailties
of human flesh, they barely care, but the rest of Heaven isn't so pleased about this potential outcome.
Since only a human can save humanity, the dubious task falls to Bethany, an ordinary woman who isn't
even quite sure she believes in the angels and demons who become her traveling buddies and partners in
rescuing the world.
Kevin Smith originally envisioned Bethany as a young, inexperienced heroine like many of the humans who
populate his comedies, but when Fiorentino read the script and aggressively pursued the part, she altered
his vision. "Linda really changed my perspective on the character," states Smith. "She redefined Bethany
as someone who's done some hard living, who's taken some knocks, who's questioning her faith as an adult.
She brings a real humanity and experience to the role that befits someone who's lived through a lot and
has a lot of questions. She also became a much better foil to Jay and Silent Bob's adolescent goofiness.
She can say 'I'm a woman; why are you treating me like I'm 14?'"
Says Linda Fiorentino: "When I read the script, I just said there's no way anyone else is allowed to have
this part. I thought it was extremely clever and it had very imaginative answers to all my childhood questions
about angels and devils and the apostles and all that stuff."
Fiorentino viewed Bethany as "a very grown-up version of Dorothy." "Bethany is having her own crisis when
she enters this kind of Oz where she's really the only human surrounded by muses and demons and Seraphim and
they're all trying to get to New Jersey instead of Kansas," she explains. "The funny part of it to me is
that she is such an inept heroine: the world rests in her hands but she doesn't know what she believes or
what she wants."
To get deeper into the role, Fiorentino viewed Bethany's story personally as one "about a woman's plight in
searching for forgiveness from and for God" - a theme for which her own Catholic upbringing prepared her.
But ultimately, says Fiorentino: "This is a dangerously hilarious movie that really reflects Kevin Smith."
As for working with Smith, Fiorentino has christened him "the Reluctant Director." "He's not innately a
control freak, which is almost a contradiction in terms for a director," she comments. "He's a genius
writer and a great actor and he is very generous and respectful in his treatment of other actors. You really
didn't want too controlled an environment on this movie since DOGMA is a comedy about things falling apart."
As things do begin to come apart at the seams, Bethany is told she will be assisted in her mission by
two prophets, human beings who carry a powerful connection to the cosmos. But nothing can prepare her
for the profane nature of the prophets she encounters: Jay and Silent Bob, the hapless suburbanite duo
who have appeared in all of Kevin Smith's films to date. This time around, Jay and Silent Bob are at
the center of something much bigger than either of them could possibly comprehend, let alone prophesize
about. Yet somehow their warped comical presence drives Bethany forward, if only out of dismay, to the
New Jersey church where they will make a stand for humankind.
Jason Mewes reprises his role as the grossly verbose Jay, taking the character to new heights of cosmic
absurdity. "Mewes is Mewes, as ever," notes Kevin Smith, who first cast his non-professional, childhood
friend as a stoner in "Clerks," "but he went above and beyond this time. He's come a long way as an actor
who is very present in the scene. I really impressed upon him that he had to be prepared for this movie.
'There are real actors in this one,' we kept telling him. And he held his own against people like Affleck
and Rickman."
"DOGMA's really funny and there's some cool stuff in it," summarizes Mewes in his characteristic style.
"Basically Jay and Silent Bob are on their way to New Jersey when this chick Bethany wants to come along and
Jay's thinking 'yah, cool' because he thinks he's going to get laid and instead he ends up discovering angels
and devils and stuff like that."
Smith himself returns in the role of Silent Bob, a taciturn soul, especially for a Prophet. But it is in
the subtle, non-verbal reactions of Bob that his character makes his influence duly known. Says Linda
Fiorentino: "I think Kevin doesn't get enough credit for his acting. I thought he was really incredible
as Silent Bob and a lot of the moments we had together on the set were really wonderful moments acting-wise."
For both Smith and Mewes, one high point of DOGMA was working with one of their long-time heroes:
George Carlin, who plays Cardinal Glick. "His whole world view as it were inspires this movie," says Smith,
"and I thought it was important to have Carlin involved because he's one of the bastard fathers of the whole
thing. He really dug on the idea of playing a Cardinal. He knew that it wasn't just a joke and he wanted to
show what's at the heart of Glick - who is a salesman but is also totally sincere." Adds Smith: "George
turned out to be one of the most professional performers I've ever worked with, giving 150% all the way."
CELESTIAL BEINGS OF HEAVEN AND HELL
In DOGMA, new characters often emerge from a puff of mysterious smoke or simply fall splat out of
the sky. The first celestial being Bethany meets - most unexpectedly -- bursts out of the ether and into
her apartment, sporting prodigious wings and a savage wit. This is Metatron, a Seraphim, one of the highest
choirs of angels in the celestial hierarchy. He is vastly knowledgeable, in possession of potent supernatural
powers and, like all angels, as neuter as a Barbie doll. Metatron's job is to be the Voice of God.
English actor Alan Rickman brings to the role of Metatron a world-weary, self-possessed quality that is at once
powerful and comical. States Kevin Smith: "The Voice of God has to be British; it's that simple."
Smith continues: "Alan Rickman is the class of this movie and he brings to it an air of authenticity. It's
also comical to have him opposite Jason Mewes- a Shakespearean trained actor of the highest order next to a
dude from New Jersey. And he was a real sport to wear those 100 pound wings."
Rickman was drawn to the movie because he found it "highly crafted, highly intelligent and terribly funny,
with the humor putting the seriousness of the themes into perspective." "It's a script that makes great technical
demands on an actor because there is a real beat to the line," says Rickman, "and Kevin can hear it. That's
what comedy is about: the rhythm of the writing."
He describes Metatron as "the sort of production manager for God, if you like." From the start, Rickman saw
his character as a visual riff on the megalithic rock stars of the 80s with big hair and a slick, shiny suit -
someone with a lot of self-importance and the audience to support it. "I remember talking to Kevin on the phone
in America and asking if I could have a shiny suit somewhere in the film," recalls Rickman. "The suit became
very important to the character." But spiritually, Rickman's Metatron is miles beyond humans and even many of
his own kind. "Metatron is the ring master who treats the others like the naughty children they are," notes
Rickman. "He merely wants to sort it all out and get back home to a cloud."
Metatron arranges for another of his cloud-mates to literally drop in on Bethany: Rufus, who claims to be
the 13th Apostle, the one who got left out of the Bible for political reasons. Says Chris Rock: "Comedy
and rules don't really mix in my view so I don't see this story as breaking any rules. To me, it's just a
very funny movie. I saw it as 'Star Wars' meets 'The Ten Commandments' with a little 'Romeo and Juliet'
thrown in."
Rock pursued the role with a passion, winning over Kevin Smith. "Chris was the less obvious choice for
Rufus," Smith concedes. "I loved his work as a comedian but I was trepidatious about hiring a guy who I
liked because of his ad-libbing style and then saying 'you know all that stuff you do that I like, well
don't do any of it.' There's a lot of comedians in the flick but I was asking them not to do what they
do in their day jobs. Chris really convinced me because he carries dramatic scenes in such a way you
wouldn't even know it's Chris. People were saying 'I can't believe Rock can act like that.' But every
comedian has that potential in them - if you can bring someone to the edge of their seats laughing, you
can also go the other way."
Another surprise in the film's eclectic casting is Salma Hayek as Serendipity, the infamously fickle Muse
of creative inspiration, who has found herself working in a strip bar. "I was immediately intrigued by
this project because it is so original, so completely different from anything I've seen," says Hayek.
Hayek describes Serendipity as "the one who throughout history inspired all the geniuses of art and music,
like Mozart and Michelangelo and never got any of the credit." Having taken a hiatus on earth, Serendipity
is struggling as a human until she too is swept up in the adventurous quest to save the world. Among the
group on the way to New Jersey to stop the apocalypse, Serendipity is the primary female presence aside
from Linda Fiorentino's Bethany. "We're the girls in a boy's world," says Hayek. "I really bonded with
Linda. She's such a strong woman and she's become my mentor in that way."
"Salma was another person I hadn't thought of at first," admits Smith. "And when her name came up I
thought there's a lot of dialogue in this flick, is she up to the task? I didn't know what I was
saying because she's one of smartest people I've ever met, whip smart. Yes -- she's real gorgeous too,
but she's also a wonderfully gifted comedienne."
The only other celestial woman in DOGMA is the one at the very top of the cosmological chain
in Smith's fantasia: God herself, depicted in a most original
manner by Alanis Morissette. Smith explains:
"There's a Zen Buddhist serenity to Alanis that calls to mind something otherworldly. She's definitely
ethereal in nature, even when not speaking, and she's carries an air about her that played into the role."
Finally, on the other side of the battle, is the demonic Azrael, whose fall from grace has put him in a
perennially pissed off mood. Azrael is played by Jason Lee, best known as the less affable comic-book
artist in "Chasing Amy." Lee was originally set to play Loki, but a scheduling conflict forced
him out. "That really depressed me because it's hard to conceive of making a flick without him," explains
Smith. "Luckily, in the end his schedule freed up and he was able to segue into Azrael. It's a role that
enables him to show off the colors that he's not been able to display in his previous go-arounds as the
wacky sidekick. This time, he went completely beyond that. He's acting by himself most of time, making
these large speeches and working the room. You couldn't ask for a better villain. Jason became the guy
people in rehearsals would measure themselves against - such was the passion and intensity of his performance."
Jason Lee purposely stayed away from stereotypes of black-hearted, passionless devils. "Azrael's a
miserable creature with hidden agendas," he explains. "I saw him as someone who is not so much evil as
really pissed off and willing to do something about it. He comes from hell but he never wanted to be there
in the first place. He's spent the last million years sweating it out and he's ready to leave, even if
means ending all existence."
For Lee, playing Azrael was an unexpected boon, a chance to turn in a performance that is the antithesis
of his roles in "Mallrats" and "Chasing Amy." "Here I was getting the chance to work with
Kevin for a third time, which was great, but also getting to play a character unlike anything I've done in
his movies before, which made it even better," notes Lee. "For me it was the same Kevin Smith, different
Jason Lee. Instead of playing my usual wise-ass cynic sidekick, I got to do something that's going to be
a fun surprise for the Kevin Smith audiences. It's a totally new type of character for me, but still highly
entertaining."
Continues Lee: "I was excited when I read the script because it was definitely a Kevin Smith movie . . .
but with special effects. Regardless of what you get from it, and underneath all the visual entertainment,
DOGMA is still a Kevin Smith comedy, a supernatural comedy maybe, but with the Kevin Smith approach."
Adds Scott Mosier: "Azrael is my favorite character and we all saw him as central to the movie. He's
basically been embittered over thousands and thousands of years because he was dumped by someone he loves.
He's a villain of the oldest sort and yet you can relate to his very human situation. Jason managed to play
him as pathetic and whiny while at the same time maintaining a very imposing presence. He entertains me to no end."
CONSTRUCTING HEAVEN AND EARTH: THE DESIGN OF DOGMA
To bring the whimsy of DOGMA to life, Kevin Smith wanted a look somewhere between reality and unreality,
in the slightly skewed, eye-popping style of his favorite comic-books. To get this look, he surrounded himself
with a group of dedicated visual artists who could help transubstantiate his dream-like storyboards into tangible
sets and effects. "These guys really gave their all," says Smith. "The special effects team went all out and
there was this kind of guiding spirit of 'let's put on a show.'"
"This is the first time either of us has shot a movie in which we had to deal with questions like are the
angel wings working properly," sums up Scott Mosier. "The biggest thing was that we really had to let go
and invite more people to the party. There were many more arms involved - special effects, CGI, visual
effects and it was a huge amount of information to process and control. The ante was upped and we lost
a bit of our innocence."
Key to the effort was the work of production designer Robert Holtzman. "When I read the script, I immediately
knew it was going to be a real challenge," admits Holtzman. Not surprisingly, Holtzman felt Smith's script read
like a graphic novel. He envisioned the look and feel of the story as a comic-book sprung to life, splashed
with implausible colors and broad strokes that could have come from the ink of an artist. "I started looking
at a lot of comic books for color and design ideas," he explains. "I used several blank walls and full walls
in the background to give the film more of a sort of hand-drawn feeling. We also used colors like pumpkin,
bray blues and dark grey in situations where you would normally use white to give the film a very surreal
and abstract look."
"One of the great things about working with Kevin," continues Holtzman, "is that you can bring in a whole
table full of ideas and he just starts thinking as far out as you want him to and then at the last minute
he reigns you in. I really wanted to create a whole other world with this movie that reflects Kevin's view
askew universe, which has a logic of its own."
Among other things, Holtzman built the train that takes Bethany, Rufus, Jay, Silent Bob and the two
renegade angels towards the New Jersey climax; the set was then propped on tire tubes that could approximate
a chugging motion. Holtzman also had fun layering in lots of subtle mythological symbols from various
religious traditions - something for the fans who like to ponder the details.
Adding to the otherworldly feel of DOGMA are the creations of Vince Guastini, creature effects supervisor,
who worked laboriously to design the Golgathan, an ancient demon that rises from the bowels of the earth or,
in this case, modern plumbing. Guastini also created the prosthetic angel wings for all of the non-human
beings, celestial or otherwise. Jason Lee explains his character's demonic attachments: "Vince really made
my horns look realistic. I couldn't feel them on my head and they only took about twenty minutes to put on."
Charlie Belardinelli, the film's special effects supervisor, took on the task of engineering all the mechanical
effects, including the film's pyrotechnics and shocking creature entrances. "Kevin basically laid out exactly
what he wanted and I collaborated with the visual effects people and the creature effects people to bring it
to life. It was a lot of fun," says Belardinelli.
Capturing the whole thing on film is director of photography Robert Yeoman. "So nervous was I about a failure
to communicate with a DP for this flick that I almost bagged out on the picture until I met Bob Yeoman," says
Smith. "Bob brought experience to the project that enabled me to try a more visually oriented style of filmmaking
than I had ever attempted before."
Yeoman was entranced by Smith's unusual script. "It was just way out there, with all these different characters
and all these different curve balls coming at you," he says. "What appealed to me most was that it was very,
very different and still very entertaining."
Yeoman continues: "Kevin had a very clear idea of what he wanted on the screen but he also was open to my
ideas. He looked to me to figure out ways to achieve what he envisioned." One of Yeoman's favorite scenes
was his most challenging: the lake scene in which Metatron reveals to Bethany her true heritage . . .
and unexpected powers. "It's a very elaborate scene involving water and a complicated platform rig and lots of dramatic light - what more fun could you have?" he says.
WINGS OVER VERSACE: THE COSTUMES
The fantasy world of DOGMA also required costume designer Abigail Murray to ask the essential question:
what would the pantheon of angels and demons in the celestial hierarchy wear if they came to 20th century earth?
Her answer was to reinterpret age-old celestial uniforms with a modern twist. "I went with hooded sweatshirts
for the three angels: Loki, Bartleby and Metatron," she details. "I wanted to make a subtle reference to the
hooded cassocks worn by angels in 14th and 15th century paintings."
For Alan Rickman, Murray put together a Versace ensemble specially adjusted to accommodate wings. "Metatron
is very into getting to wear Versace," laughs Rickman. "It's not something he normally would wear and it's
something God of course has scant respect for. But it pleases him." Rickman also had to wear a prosthetic
that he coyly refers to "as the opposite of Mark Wahlberg's in 'Boogie Nights.'" Jason Lee's Azrael also
wears a suit, a nifty seersucker that matches his clipped short hair, black hat and dapper demeanor. "I
loved the presentation of my character," says Lee. "When I got dressed in his clothes, I really felt great,
whatever that says about me."
Murray worked closely with production designer Robert Holtzman, matching her costume colors to his backgrounds
using comic-book style pizzazz. "We were in total collaboration on the color schemes," says Holtzman. "I
wanted the wardrobe to just pop out of the sets so it looked like a comic book where a character just kind
of leaps out into the foreground. It helped the entire design knowing that Abigail's colors would be there for us."
But throughout all her celestial creations, Murray maintained a certain down-to-earth restraint.
"The choices that Abigail made don't need to bellow 'Look at me, I'm a costume!' That is the sign of a
true artist," says Kevin Smith.
FLOCKING TO PITTSBURGH: THE SHOOT
DOGMA was shot almost entirely in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, a city that has the strange distinction
of being able to stand in for a host of other locales, in this case Chicago, New Jersey and Wisconsin.
The production was, in logistics, organization and sheer scope, by far the most ambitious production
Kevin Smith and Scott Mosier had ever attempted.
There were problems from up above - most notably, tremendous rainstorms and even one of Pittsburgh's rare
but mighty tornadoes. "I remember looking up at the sky and saying 'wow,' Kevin, there's a funnel cloud'
in the distance and the suddenly realizing it was real," recalls Linda Fiorentino.
But Smith was nonplussed. "I know it was a tight schedule and tight budgetarily. I know there was a
lot of rain but for me it doesn't really seep in because I'm just concentrating. My job is always the
same: I write the script, I rehearse the actors, and I make sure the actors reflect what I saw in my head.
So I say thank God for Mosier. Without Mosier, where would I be? He takes all that other stuff by the
horns and does a spectacular job."
In the end, Smith was awed not by the obstacles that faced the film but by its power to bring
people together. "It was amazing to have all these people pull together to do it. Many of them
got paid far, far below what they're used to getting paid. Their commitment was touching and heart-warming."